Forum:Affiliation: Starfleet or United Earth/Federation Starfleet?
I am not sure where else to put this, as this applies to just about every kind of sidebar (people, starships, etc...), but what is the new consensus on how to do this? At one point, I thought the community had agreed that there was just one Starfleet and to eventually (after I brought it up once before) to edit the sidebars to say that (in the affiliation fields). However, as of late, these fields have been getting edited to say "United Earth Starfleet", so... I want to ask, what should it be? To me, there seems to be just one Starfleet, and quite frankly it should be one way or another, not one Starfleet article combining everything and then having the sidebars refer to two different Starfleets. That's just confusing as all hell, and mucks things up a bit more then it's worth doing. --Terran Officer 23:10, February 14, 2011 (UTC) :It was my understanding as well that there was only one Starfleet- I thought that was settled. Is it newbies/anons doing it, or regular users? --31dot 23:19, February 14, 2011 (UTC) ::According to User talk:Archduk3#Federation Starfleet, you have already participated in one discussion about the same question, and have already been told that all those changes were an honest mistake. -- Cid Highwind 23:25, February 14, 2011 (UTC) The reason that I bring it up here, Cid, is because despite that discussion, when I made a change to reflect this on [[Enterprise (NX-01)|NX-01 Enterprise]], from "United Earth Starfleet" to "Starfleet" it was changed back (by Archduk3) to say "United Earth Starfleet" so I thought it would be best to try and post someplace where a more community wide discussion could again address it, to prevent edit wars. --Terran Officer 23:29, February 14, 2011 (UTC) ::OK, I'll take that back - that is indeed strange, especially if done three days after claiming the earlier edits were mistaken. I agree that it should be either/or, but not both in different places. -- Cid Highwind 23:35, February 14, 2011 (UTC) :::I am not sulfur, who made the change back, and I was having a discussion about it with him on IRC before getting distracted. While I see the point of listing the government and then the service, and I don't really care either way, but if we are going to do it it should be to the correct name. - 23:46, February 14, 2011 (UTC) I apologize, I did not see Sulfur's name in the recent changes on changing it to "Earth Starfleet", but if the government is to be listed too (somewhat understandable) then it needs to be done in a way that it's not saying "United Earth Starfleet" is the name of the organization, when the attempt is to say "United Earth" is the government and "Starfleet" is the organization it's operated by. Principally, I think the actual operators of the ship can work in this case (Although, they do say "Federation Starship..." in TNG and what not) --Terran Officer 23:51, February 14, 2011 (UTC) ::I've changed it back for the moment. For what it's worth, not many pages link to the available redirects Earth Starfleet and United Earth Starfleet - so if there are any further "offenders", they probably use some piped link construct that they really shouldn't. Are there any examples? -- Cid Highwind 23:54, February 14, 2011 (UTC) :::Most links are United Earth Starfleet or just Earth Starfleet. It seems like there might have been a bot run when the articles were merged to separate them, that or someone spent a lot of time "fixing" them. - 23:58, February 14, 2011 (UTC) Interestingly enough, in the introduction of the very same page, the link to Starfleet reads "Earth Starfleet" while written to appear as Starfleet. In any case, I would hope there aren't people thinking that I am making to big of a deal on this, I just want to know what sort of edits I should be making. There is also a further complication, because for instance, T'Pol served Starfleet and not United Earth, this is likely the sort of thing where I started wondering (aside from the Starfleets being merged into one page some time ago). As for the other's, I don't know right off, but one can visit the redirect page directly and view the "what links here" part to see which pages use the "off name" (or however we want to say this). --Terran Officer 00:00, February 15, 2011 (UTC) ::From what I've read on all the different pages where this had been discussed in the past, "United Earth Starfleet" hasn't ever been used on the show - just "Starfleet". The "Federation Starfleet" has been called that a couple of times, but mostly just "Starfleet" as well. So, any link to the organization should go to Starfleet - and if there will ever be consensus to split, it should probably be to Starfleet (United Earth) and Starfleet (United Federation of Planets), and nothing else. ::Another question is whether it makes sense to also name the "mother organization" - and if it makes sense, how to do that. United Earth Starfleet is not a good way, in my opinion, because it suspiciously looks like the United Earth Starfleet we're just trying to avoid. If anything, it should probably be Starfleet/United Earth (note order and '/') or Starfleet (United Earth). So... is it sensible to name not only the organization one is affiliated with, but also its "parent"? How is this handled in other circumstances, both here and perhaps on WP? -- Cid Highwind 10:47, February 15, 2011 (UTC) :::It seems weird to list the government second, since it runs Starfleet, for all intensive purposes, not the other way around. As for if it should even be mentioned, it seems all Klingon ships only mention the Empire, not the Defence Forces, and the Romulan ships are the same way, so it seems only Starfleet ships mention the organization instead of the government. - 21:37, February 17, 2011 (UTC) ::::Just an idea, but how about we do that for all articles? I mean, just list the government they are affiliated to, since that is where the loyalty ultimately lies. For example, Starfleet ships would simply be "United Federation of Planets" or "United Earth" depending on the era, whereas Klingon ships state "Klingon Empire", Romulan ships "Romulan Star Empire" etc etc. Any thoughts? --| TrekFan Open a channel 21:45, February 17, 2011 (UTC)